@fluff_hen said:

@FACTSAREUSELESS said:

The Dead were a shell of what they used to be by late '78, and Jerry had pretty much cashed in his chips by '80. The next 15 years was drivel. We all sat around watching him die while trying to salvage what we could from the shows. This is not like that at all. .

Good God, this is so wrong it's ludicrous. I hope you're actually 60 years old to be making such a statement. The GD had several peaks: 72-74, 77-78, 89-91... and each period has its partisans for "best ever". GD weren't a "washed up shell" by any stretch until 93 - 94. They were a great band and played many killer, killer shows in 1989, 1990, etc. IOW, the situation with Phish is EXACTLY the same: vets who have been around longer and prefer the way the band sounded in their youth, looking down on 3.0.. and they are entitled, but it's alot more fun to dig what is going on NOW.

JoyJoy.....You're obviously a Deadhead (and PhishHead) like me. I read your comments earlier today and have taken some time to reflect. I think you are right to correct me on one point: I overstated myself saying that the difference between Phish and the Dead is too vast to make comparisons. Obviously, there are many similarities, depending upon your view and the point you're trying to make. My point was that too many phans point needlessly to the "old days" in a way that seems to discredit their efforts today, which I believe is misguided.

Please let me correct you, however, about your GD history, if you're willing to listen. I am a huge fan of the band, and I have a ridiculously massive collection of SDB's of their shows, from '66 to '93, (never bothered with 94-95). The band did not, as you say, have several "peaks". There were several periods in which their music is considered better than in others, yes, but those are not "peaks." The GD peaked in the summer of 1972, after their European tour, as they toured the west coast. When Pigpen got very sick and then died, it derailed their momentum. '73 is considered by many to be their best year (myself included), but as '74 approached, their shows were becoming increasingly unfocused and uncohesive. Then they took time off. When they came back, refreshed, they were focused and the next 18 months was another period of great music (the '77 "peak" you referenced). Towards the end of this run, however, you could hear the rot starting to set in, as Jerry (and others in the band) began doing massive quantities of cocaine, and Keith Godchaux was falling to pieces. '78 saw lots of inconsistent playing. They were still hot, but were having quite a few off nights. By '80, Jerry was now dabbling in heroine and was letting himself go to complete shit. (Check out photos of him from '77, then '80, then '85. It's pretty scary.) His singing and playing went consistently downhill (as did the band's). There was a bump in energy for a year or so with the arrival of Brent (and departure of Donna), but then (due in no small part to Brent Mydland, who was a self-destructive party animal), Jerry started to completely fall apart. Do you remember the diabetic coma? Remember the bumper stickers "the Fat Man Melts" ? We were hoping and praying he'd turn it around. He did for a short time, resulting in a rennaissance between '87-89. DON'T call this a "peak". It was simply a brief return to professionalism and consciousness. By '91 he was a complete train wreck and they should have stopped touring (like Phish did when Trey was struggling). Don't speak to me of all the intense concerts from '80 on. I know what you're talking about. I followed them up and down the East Coast in the '80's, and I'm not speaking out of my ass.
Phish is so much better, so much more talented and so much more professional than the Dead ever were it's not funny. The Dead limped home (because of Jerry) while Phish is picking up steam (though it remains to be seen how they finish).

Anyway, I apologize for ranting on so long, but there's a lot of people who spout out the "conventional wisdom" on the Dead and it just isn't true. In that vein, you were right to say it is the same today, regarding phans' opinions and the "noobs", "vets" angle.

Please don't take offense, I know you're a veteran fan of the GD and I'm sure you know all this, but just maybe not from that perspective.

By the way, I'm not 60. Like I said before, I'm just under 50 and started going to Dead shows in '81. If that makes me unqualified to comment on their music before that period (which I own thousands of hours of), then that's pretty sad, and says a lot about the division we have in the Phish community.

Let's keep it real.